Visibility Fatigue and Self-Doubt: Why Showing Up Online Feels So Hard for Women in Business

This week on Marketing Sucks, Amanda is joined by award-winning psychotherapist Natacha Pennycooke for a real conversation about visibility fatigue, self-doubt, comparison, and the emotional cost of constantly showing up online. They unpack why being visible as an entrepreneur can feel so draining, especially when social media makes it look like everyone else is growing faster, doing more, and living some effortless “soft life.” From comparisonitis and nervous system overload to boundaries, burnout, and redefining success on your own terms, this episode is a much-needed reminder that building a business should not require shrinking yourself or abandoning your mental health. If you know you need to be visible but feel emotionally exhausted, this conversation is your permission slip to pause, recalibrate, and come back in a way that actually feels like you.

What You’ll Learn

✔ What visibility fatigue actually looks like for entrepreneurs
 ✔ Why showing up online can feel emotionally exhausting, not just physically tiring
 ✔ The difference between normal nervousness and chronic self-doubt
 ✔ How comparisonitis impacts confidence, creativity, and business growth
 ✔ Why the “soft life” narrative can create unrealistic pressure for women entrepreneurs
 ✔ How to redefine success based on your own life, energy, values, and goals
 ✔ Why playing small costs you, your business, and the people who need your work
 ✔ What to do when you know you need to be visible but feel completely drained

Connect With Us

For behind-the-scenes clips, hot takes, and conversations we don’t always have time for on the mic, follow us on Instagram @grindsocialmedia.

If you’ve been listening for a while, leaving a quick review helps more business owners find the show and stop wasting money on marketing that doesn’t work.

Thanks for listening and thanks for being part of this community.

Meet Our Guest

Natacha Pennycooke is a leader in workplace mental health and safety, a mindset coach, and an award-winning psychotherapist. With over 13 years of experience, she is the CEO of Natacha Pennycooke Psychotherapy, a private group practice supporting individuals, couples, families, and youth 16+ through trauma, anxiety, depression, fear, self-doubt, and the mental health impacts of racialization and marginalization.

Her work is guided by an anti-oppressive, healing-focused, trauma-informed, anti-racism lens and racial justice framework.

Learn more at www.natachapennycooke.com or follow along on Instagram at @natachapennycooke.therapy.

—

📱 Looking for content creation & social strategies that drive REAL results? Visit grindsocialmedia.com.

🤝 Book your free discovery call: calendly.com/grindsocial/discoverycall 

Get social

Instagram: @grindsocialmedia 

Facebook: facebook.com/GRINDSOCIALMEDIA 

📢 I’d love it if you’d share this episode and tag me!

Podcasting support

Production: theultimatecreative.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

All right, everybody. Welcome back to Marketing Sucks. I'm your host, Amanda Casinha. Phil is absent today. He is not feeling well. So we are doing some solo recordings. And today I have the lovely Natasha Pennycook with me. Hello. Hello. Great to be back. I am okay. How are you? Oh, I am tired, girl. We're going to talk about it. That's all the things today. All the things. All the things. So, Natasha, if you guys are new here, is our quarterly mental health expert. So she comes on and we talk all the things business, entrepreneurship, but more importantly, how that affects us personally, professionally, and how to better protect our mental health. So, Natasha, as always, can you just give us a little bit of a who you are for any of the new listeners, please?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Yes. Hello, hello, everybody. I'm Natasha Pennycook. I am a multi-award-winning psychotherapist. Our clinic, Natasha Pennycook Psychotherapy and Consulting Services. We help individuals who are going through a whole plethora of mental health challenges from grief and loss to burnout to workplace oppression and harassment. So whatever you are looking for, our team can support you. And we're also going into workplaces and helping teams really build up their mental health, whether it is mental wellness or allyship, we're there to support you. So definitely reach out and I'm excited for our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

And as I always say, guys, like I personally don't use Natasha as a therapist. I have my own that I've had for 20 years. So, but I have recommended lots of friends her way, and they have had nothing but amazing things to say about her team, and they all work with different people. So I just want to go ahead and say that if you are struggling or you need or something resonates in today's episode, I get nothing out of this, just pure respect and love for Natasha and everything she does. And so grateful that you're always here with us. Okay, so what sucks this week? We are going to talk about visibility fatigue and self-doubt. And I think this is an interesting conversation. I threw this in on into Natasha's WhatsApp this morning because I was like, what are we talking about today? This is something that I've been seeing across obviously online, right? There's lots of chatter. I also see this with clients, right? I see this with this, oh, I have to show up. Oh, I have to do this. Oh, I have to perform. Oh, I have to be on all the time. And so I wanted to kind of talk about this from the lens of mental health and therapy as opposed to the lens of like how to show up on social media because or how to show up for your team. It's a little bit different. So I think let's start off with like maybe explain it a little bit. Like, what does visibility fatigue look like, like from your lens?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah, and I really think this is a great topic because, you know, myself as a psychotherapist, you know, we talk about mental health things all the time. But myself as Natasha, the entrepreneur and the business owner, this is this feels like exactly where I am at the moment, while things are busy, while we're making sure everyone's mental health is on point, including, you know, my own and that of our team. So, you know, what does this look like? It looks like the piece of always having to be on, always being there, always putting yourself out there for people to see while you're recognizing that I don't want to be seen right now. I need to like, I feel like I need to step back. I want to be in my own space and my own lane. There's a lot of things that are that you're doing. It might be that you're feeling not only that that fatigue or that burnout, but it's like maybe your creativity is lacking and not feeling like you're getting that up and going and not in the space where you're usually with with your creativity. And this can have a real big impact, not only on your personal self and your professional self, but also on your business self, right? In terms of how you're showing up and how you're putting yourself out there and how you're making sure that your amazing services are seen for the people who need them. So, you know, it's really great that we're having this conversation. I think also with everything that's going on in and around us in the world, that this is something that's very real for a lot of people right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah. So what like what makes this so emotionally draining for us? You know, like I understand, like I'm always on, but I also retreat real well too. Like I'm also like, and I'm gonna protect my peace. So I know what's emotionally draining for me around specific times of the year, but like from this whole like having to show up a lot, like why is it so draining? Because I don't actually think that it's physical fatigue. I personally think it's emotional fatigue that makes you then physical. Like, I think it's like whatever's like presenting in your body will then like make you tired, right? So, or sorry, whatever presents in your body is actually from like a mental strain or an emotional strain. I could just be making that shit up. But like, what do you think? Like me personally, right? Like, what do you think it is? Like, what is it that is so emotionally draining when it comes to being like a female entrepreneur in like today's landscape?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah. So that you're you're right. You're exactly right. You're right on point where that what's going on emotionally, psychologically in our mind is impacting our body. So, what makes it draining is that having to be on all the time, but also that comparison piece. I know we've spoken about comparison comparison, I like to call it comparisonitis, the disease of yes, the made-up disease, comparisonnitis. You know, I'm still gonna trademark that. But it is that it's the fact that for especially a lot of women entrepreneurs, there is this piece that I have to look good and be good and speak well and show up and show my things and do all the things, and now people are dancing, and now people are doing the makeup online and all those different things. It's like, okay, which lane should I be in? It's exhausting, right? To always think that, oh, am I doing this correct? Am I doing it right? Am I pinning it out there where people are actually gonna see it and they're gonna like it and they're gonna get what I'm talking about? So, all of that, like questioning of self that plays a really big role in it as well. And again, it becomes mentally draining, fatiguing, where you're always thinking about it and you're like questioning yourself and that self-doubt. And the thing is, self-doubt takes a lot of mental energy, right? Because you're looking at self and comparing self and saying yes, no, and all of that. And what that does, that has a ripple effect in our bodies. Our heart rate tends to go up, palms tend to get sweaty, mouth tends to be dry. For a lot of women, we feel like that kind of pit in our stomach area, the digestive system area, maybe not eating, that leads to not sleeping well. So there's a whole ripple effect that goes down when we're stuck in that comparisonitis and that self-doubt and that self-critique.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Okay, so this is perfect. I love what you're putting down. I'm picking it up because my next question, it's like we're on the same. You know, I love I love these chats. Okay, this is my next question, so it's so great. What is the difference then between normal nervousness? Because what you just described to me sounds like somebody who's incredibly nervous, right? Like you get up, it's like my palms are sweaty, like the MM. Okay, so chronic, but what's the difference between chronic self-doubt and normal nervousness? Because I feel like some people confuse the two. And it's like, yeah, you can't just be nervous all the time. I think you're actually just self-doubting. Like, how do we work through that? So, like, what is the difference between the two? Because it sounds like nervousness to me.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, yeah, no, but you're right. So I want you to think of, and everyone listening, I want you to think of mental health on a continuum, right? A lot of times, what happens when we think about mental health, we're always thinking about like the severe end of the continuum, right? That in crisis end, that disordered end. But think about it as a continuum. Now, the reason why I want you to think about it on a continuum is because throughout that continuum, on the lower end, there's that everyday stress and nervousness and anxiety. Now, anxiety from a biological standpoint is actually protective, right? We're walking down the street, there's a car speeding down, it doesn't stop. We need to have a little bit of the nervousness to jump out of the way to be self-protective, right? If we're not nervous, we're gonna be looking like, oh look, the car is getting closer. Oh, okay. But we want to have a little bit of that to say, yo, I need to jump out of the way, I need to protect myself. So, from a biological standpoint, a little bit of that anxiety is good because it's protective. It becomes disordered when we're having the racing heart, the sweaty palms, the dry mouth, not able to focus, not able to concentrate, getting headaches, all of that internalized self-doubt. That becomes now second-guessing, everything. Now that is anxiety, and that's more on again, that severe end of the continuum. That's when you're recognizing that I'm not able to function in my everyday. If you recognize anything that I'm saying and you're realizing you're getting to that point, please reach out to a mental health provider, right? Because if you're if it's impacting your everyday ability to function, we need to make sure that we get you back on track and you start pinning things in earlier than later, right? So it is important that we're making disdifferentiation so that you know where you are, right? If you're starting to recognize some of these things, then yeah, you know, like Amanda said, protecting your peace is really important. There are going to be times when you're on, you have to be on. You are, you know, I've been calling myself lately the spokesperson of the organization. And then you have to be on and you have to go out there, you have to talk about your organization, your brand, what you do, who you serve, how you serve, but also recognizing, like, okay, now is my downtime, and I'm protecting that time.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

And I think setting up the boundaries around that, whether, especially if you feel like you're a service-based business and providing and you need that, like those parameters, I think that's also very important, especially if you feel yourself like at that edge of like not burnout, but almost, you know, like where you're like, okay, I need to just kind of like not be online. Do what I have to get done, provide what I gotta provide, but I'm not gonna do anything extra and above that right now. And I think that's okay too. Right. And I think that we have this like huge pressure of as women entrepreneurs, specifically, because of like what's happening in our day and age of like just like female empowerment and like go be that boss babe and like go make millions of dollars, but you've just started out, and so you're like looking at all these other people online and you're doing the comparisonitis thing, and you're saying, like, oh, I should actually have like more, like, I should be doing more because that person has that and they must have done more. So my question is, is what does the constant exposure, I'll say specifically on social media or maybe in like women entrepreneur groups or wherever it is that you are? I would say social media, I think is a little bit more toxic for it, but what does the constant constant exposure to others people other people's success do to a founder's confidence, whether it's positive or negative? Because I think it kind of is both, but like what is that what does it do? That like so much exposure to it, especially online right now. Like, what does that look like? Yeah, and you know, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

It is both. So, you know, some people have heard the adage that you are like the five people that you hang around, right? So if you are hanging around in other women entrepreneurs who are go-getters and they're signing to contracts and they're doing a lot of things, likelihood is that you are going to learn from that sphere and also be a part of that as well. Now, while that is good, sometimes if you're starting to feel like, okay, my creativity is being zapped, I'm not being able to show up as I am. Now I'm seeing all these people around me. What can happen is that comparisonitis and you internalize those things as, oh, you know, I'm not doing as well as this person has a million followers, and I don't have that. Why don't I have that? And I think what happens with that is, you know, I don't know for you, but and for anyone listening, but those individuals who send you those things in your inbox, in your DMs, where it's like, I see you have you have a good influence, you should have more followers, and all of those things, right? Those things, yeah, but all of those things start pitting those self-doubt, and that's the thing, right? Like it is the self-doubt. So on the positive, is you're probably like the people in your street. On the negative, it pits the self-doubt because you start comparing. So, you know, Amanda, you had said this a couple of episodes back where it's like it's okay to take a break from social media if you're starting to recognize that, okay, the comparison, I'm falling into it too much, I'm internalizing it too much. You can take a break. That might be just a break that you need so you could re-center in who you are, what you offer, what you do, and how you help people so that you can come back stronger. And I think always anchoring yourself to what it is that you do, because you may be seeing someone else doing, you know, has a million followers doing a great job on all these different platforms. But what that can do is take you away from what you are doing. So really recentering back to what it is you do, who you help, and that that thing that's different, right? Like even right now in spaces, there's lots of different therapists out there, but but I'm not like everyone else, right? And everyone else is not like me. So it's recognizing that you have a lane and own it. What happens when you compare yourself? You go out of your lane, you fall into someone else's lane, and then you try to do what they do, and they have their own secret sauce. Recognize what your secret sauce is, where your expertise are, where your zone of genius lies, and market that, right? Stick with that, do that, talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah, and I think that there's also this thing where it's like we want instant gratification, we want instant results, and people are like, How I built a six-figure business in 90 days, and you're like, shut the fuck up. Yes. So you know what? But listen, but that hold on, that can happen, but you have to have like an amazing set of like resources, investors, like a whole team. Like, you're not gonna do it by yourself that quickly. You will do it, but it's not going to be that quick. Yeah, and so then what happens is I think then the visibility fatigue really sets in there because you're not getting the fast results, you're doing everything. You're like, you're just hammering it out. And so then there's like no gratification. And this is where I believe in people have to understand like what they're motivated by. So is it external factors or internal? So for me, I'm very much internally motivated. Like I set stuff for myself, like whatever the noise is out there does not affect what I have set up for myself. And that's been 20 years of therapy. Like I've had to literally like cut it out. Like, I don't worry about that. Like those people that DM, I'm like, oh wow, predatory marketing. We're still doing this. Cool, cool. And that shit bothers me because I see it all the time. And I'm like, this is awful. And how awful for somebody who's just starting out that hasn't really been through like the real hardships of entrepreneurship, where you gotta get yourself out of bed and you gotta keep going and you're gonna, you're gonna get it done. But it's like, where's the motivation to show up coming? And and I mean showing up for your team, showing up for your partner, showing up for your your community, whatever that look your clients, right? Like, so I think it's looking at also from a visibility fatigue, it's like I don't get fatigued online because I set up very strong boundaries. And I learned that the hard way. Yeah, and so sometimes we just gotta learn some hard lessons about like what to do and when it's not serving us. And it's okay to be a little bit selfish. And it's funny because we were, I was just on a trip with Andrea from Sedangue, and we were talking about this in the car. We did a lot of driving in Kelowna, and we were talking about this in the car and how we both, you know, it took us a while to get here, but we come to this point of like, I'm just gonna do things that I like to do. Like, I'm gonna choose me, because at the end of the day, the better more whole I am, the better I am for everybody else. And she said something really interesting in the car, because I won't take credit for this. And she goes, I know a lot of people she said, a lot of people think that's selfish. I think it's selfless. And I was like, Yes. I'm like, that's a very good distinct distinction. Because I think a lot of people think that that can be selfish behavior, but I think it's selfless. I think it's actually like filling up your cup. That's stupid cliche saying, like fill up your cup before you can fill up other things. But there's some truth to it. But it there is truth in it because you can only give you can only give so much, and that includes showing up online in your marketing for your teams. Like, what are you doing to fill back up? So that visibility fatigue is coming because you're giving so much, and you haven't, I think, personally turned inwards to be like, okay, now what do I need to get through the next week or the next month or the next quarter or whatever that looks like?

unknown 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

So you know what I call it? I call it's another, another word. So if you if you know me, I like to make up words. It's self-full as opposed to self-it's self-full, right? I started to think of like how can I make sure that myself is full so that I can give, right? And a lot of times we get to these places of where like you're giving, giving, giving, and doing so much of showing up, but you haven't taken that time to pause to make sure that you are full. So that's where that self-ful comes in, right? I think another piece is the oh, what's the word for it? It's um we're there, we're showing up, we're doing all these things, we're not making sure that we are okay, we're not setting those boundaries. And what happens is that we're taking away from self, right? Where those pieces that we have that are extra, quote unquote, we're not using the extra on self to do the things that we need to do for self. And I think there's such an important piece of that where, you know, especially as women, we've been trained that if we have a little bit, we were supposed to, quote unquote, give it away to someone else, as opposed to, okay, you know, I do have a little bit extra. I'm going to give it to myself, whether it is time, I have a little bit extra time. How can I make sure that I'm okay? Because the next few weeks are going to be really busy and I might not have the time that I need in those next few weeks. So I think that's important too. There's something else that you mentioned around the the quick wins, right? I have a lot of clients lately who are oh, there's a word for it. Where is it? You might have to help me out here. There is that word. I'm like my parents' mental positive brain is getting kicking. Welcome to our lives. Welcome to our lives in our early 40s. It's that piece around, oh my gosh, this is gonna bug me. Where everyone, it looks like everyone's getting everything all the time. Right? Oh, soft light. There we go. Yeah, yeah. It's a soft light. I have a lot of clients lately that are reaching out and they're like, I want a soft light. This person hasn't, this person haven't, and watching these people online, but they're not realizing the hard work that it takes to get there.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

So even as they're talking about you and Angie, wait, wait, we're gonna back this up. Can you explain for people that don't know what that is? That is okay. Love this, love this, love because I know I'm gonna be they're gonna be like, What the hell is that, Natasha? Explain it. Let me explain.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Let me just backtrack all the way back. Soft life. There is this idea now going online that the soft life is you have everything. Yeah, you you have everything, you got the money, you got the house, you got the cars, you got the well-dressed children, you have um the nice office, you're getting all the things that quote unquote you're supposed to be getting at this stage of your life. Now, the issue with that is yeah, okay, it is possible, absolutely, but no one's talking about the hard work it takes to get there. It takes years and years of work and building team, as you were saying, yeah, it's able you're able to do it a million and 60 days, but you have to have the resources and the team and everything set up in the back end to be able to do it. It's not just a solo journey and getting there. It takes hard work, time, dedication, and team to be able to have that soft life. You're watching all these people online with the glitz and the glam and all of that, but they need to show like their survival story at the beginning, right? Because we all go through it. Some of you are in it right now, and that's okay to stick with it and push through. And that's how you build that resiliency, right? No one is out there talking about how you've built that resiliency. You go through the hard thing and it sucks, and you keep going and you keep trying and you keep getting there, but you have to be, as we're saying, Amanda, internally motivated to do that and to push through and to do it. This soft life idea, while it looks great, I think it it adds to the self-doubt and the comparisonitis that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, I know this. Very, very real. This is why I think a lot of people, this is actually why I share how much I work. And there's a lot of people being like, Do you ever not work? And I'm like, No, I'm an entrepreneur. I I I chose to work 24 7, 365 days on my own terms. Here's the difference, though. And I was saying this to somebody else the other day. It's like, you know, yeah, I live in Portugal. In the summers. That came with great sacrifice in my personal life because I had to work so fucking hard the other nine months of the year to be able to do that. Financially, sorry, but like guys, to call it straight, I lost my mom to suicide when I was 19 and inherited money. And then I invested that money into a business and I gave up my 20s to build that business into like multi-million dollar business. And then I sold it so that I could be with my kids. And then I got bored of being a stay-at-home mom. So then I built another business. And to be honest, I this business, like we're in year eight. I did it by myself for six of those years with a very small team. Only in the last year since Phil came on, do we have like such a large team again? And honestly, half of the time I'm like, do I want this much? Like, do I want this much? It comes with responsibility. Yes. And it comes with response, and it comes with that work, but it is allowing us to afford a certain lifestyle because we work really fucking hard. Like really hard. And I make sure to show those late nights on my personal page because I think there comes a responsibility to show that part. I think there comes a responsibility to also show the boundaries. When I'm like, guys, I'm going to be offline for a while. Like I'm just too busy. I can't focus here and like see you in a couple of weeks. You know, I think that's important. It's also like I need to spend time with my kids. I'm not going to be online just because. So I think that that is super important. And I think there are a lot of people out there that claim these big numbers in their business, but they're not profitable and they're not actually like working in their business because they've hired a whole team. And that's great. And that's a that's a great setup too. I mean, listen, if I could just make the same and not have to work every day, like I'd be I'd be nice too, right? But I think I'd be bored. But I also look at it this way, right? Like I think there comes also responsibility and saying, like, in the even though I'm working that much, I think some of my friends that maybe hold more traditional positions of a nine to five are like you're always working, like you're always doing something. And they look at that negatively. I don't. Because for me, it's it's like in my DNA. Like I can't not, like, I'm like, so like, what would I be doing after the kids go to bed? Like, and yes, me and my husband still hang out. Like, it's not like I'm working like literally seven days a week, but in our busy periods, like it fires me up. It I'm it's my passion. Like, I love what I do. I choose these hours. I could also choose to just like not work tomorrow if I don't want to, you know, like I have that option. So I think like there's a responsibility online to other entrepreneurs to also lay it out. Yeah.

unknown 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Because like what I have now is years of sacrifice when other people my age were outliving their best life, I was learning everything there was about business. So there is a, there's a there's always something. There's always something that has to give. And it doesn't mean all the time. It's a balance, right? But I think that especially for female entrepreneurs, we are now stuck in this category of if you own a business, you have to be the most successful at it. And like successful is defined for you as opposed to you defining what success is.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

And it's so fucked up to me because I'm like, I actually choose not to have a very large business. I've turned down a lot of like really big opportunities because I'm like, nah. I just I want to see my kids for the next six months, you know? Like it's like I just I'm I'm I'm at that place where I can do that, and that's really great for me. Other people would be like, Are you crazy? Right? Because you see what you see online. And so that's where I'm like, like, please, I I I beg anybody who is like by their definition a successful entrepreneur, like pave that like honest way for the others that come after us to say that there is sacrifice involved and that it's okay to like have a little bit of self-doubt, but pick yourself up and like just keep going and do what you want to do. Like, there's no rhyme or reason. If you want to work every day, work every day. If you want to work three days a week, work three days a week. Like, whatever it is that you think is success, I think that's the important part here. And I think the fatigue comes from the comparisonitis, the constant exposure. I actually follow nobody in my field. Like my feed is food, clearly, travel, because that's what I want to do all the time, and like funny mom memes and like funny stuff. Like, that's what I'm constantly exposing myself to. I'm not exposing myself to my competition. Yeah, there's no point for me.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah, and and there's so much value in what you've just said. And I think that we do, you know, I'm giving, you know, therapists in me is coming out, giving everybody homework. Go and get a notepad, pull up your phone, pull up your computer, or write down what your definition of success is, and not based on anyone else, right? A lot of people, I mean, you could just go online and find someone else's definition of success, but recognize what that is for you. And you know, it may it may look different from the beginning of your entrepreneur journey to where you are now, to where you well be, but just make sure you're anchoring yourself to your definition of success. I know for myself right now, my definition is we are building this house in Barbados, and I'm gonna have retreats there, and you're all invited. And that's what I'm anchoring it. So yes, absolutely, right? So that's right now what my definition definite definition of success is, like getting this project up and off the ground so I could have a new venture in our organization. So really anchor yourself to what your definitive success is and make that be the thing that you're comparing yourself. You're comparing yourself from yesterday to today to what it'll be tomorrow. And I love that, Amanda, that you're not following anyone in your industry because then you're not putting yourself in that constant of the comparisonitis. And I think it could be really hard, I know, for myself. I follow other therapists because we are also colleagues and friends and we work together and it's written rules.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Oh, yeah, let's be clear. Yeah, if they're like the friends of mine, I'm following them and I'm cheering them on. But I'm not like everybody else I don't know, I don't, I don't care for right now. Like for me personally.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah, and that's a piece, right? It it reduces the possibility of that self-doubt. Oh, look at what this person's doing, look what that person's doing. And I think that can be a really dangerous game. I think that if that's where you're at, anyone here listening, yeah, take a break from social media, get really grounded and really anchored, and then go back stronger. It's okay to take the break, but in order to build a resiliency, keep going. Right? Don't don't make that like where you stop. You didn't come this far to only come this far.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

So keep going. Yeah, I go a little bit further for myself just because I'm such like I live in my brain. My brain is a very fun place to be, I think. I think if anybody was in there for like even a day, they'd be like, girl, you have a lot of thoughts. Um, when I do find myself like, let's say, slip into like this comparison mode, because it does happen, right? It can happen in any place. I always do this, or if I find myself being like about like something, I go, what is it about that that I'm not happy with? And then I just go like this with my finger and I point at myself and be like, what is it in yourself that you're hoping to be maybe better at, or that you haven't been focusing on yourself? Because that's usually where I find it's coming from. Because I feel like truly happy people are like content, doesn't be happy, but like content with yourself. You're not really nitpicking at other things, you're not really like angry about stuff. Like that's weird. When people are like, I get like shit comments and stuff. I'm like, man, you really need to do some inner work. Like it, that's a weird thing to say to a complete fucking stranger, you know? So, like for me, I just look at it like, okay, when I get like that, right? When I get really like, let's say nitpicky, I'm not perfect. I obviously do have these moments. I've just done a lot of work to like control my brain from going there. But when I do have those moments, I think the best thing my therapist told me was like, well, what is it in yourself like that's actually going on? Like, what are you feeling in that? Like, this because that hypercriticism is really just yourself. Like it's something about yourself that you have not worked on, or maybe you want to work on, or maybe you're angry about, or maybe there's something there. And so I typically will explore that and then I choose. Is this something I want to work on right now for myself? Right? Is this something I have to because it's like coming up a lot? Or is it something that I'm good to like just put in the little filing cabinet in my brain and and pick up at another time when I have capacity? And I think that's important too, because sometimes, you know, there's a lot of like, well, this is this has happened and that happened and that person did that and that person did that, or like in a team, but there's like no responsibility from like you. And so it's like, okay, now we have to like look at ourselves. So even with this visibility online, if you're getting angry about all the posts of somebody else, nine times out of 10, it's because like you're not showing up. And so you have to choose do you want to show up or not? Is that part of your model? Because it doesn't have to be part of everybody's business model. No, yeah, so I think like there's a lot of that too, and it can be about like all these external things, but this is where I talk about my internal motivation and how I'm processing my way of showing up, which is how I do it. It's not how do not the quote unquote right way. I don't really care, but it's how I like to do things. So I'm gonna continue for myself, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:52

And you know, each emotion tells us something. And I think as a society, we're not good at recognizing what is it that it's saying. And for you, you've, I mean, again, you've done 20 years of therapy. So you're recognizing what those things are, right? But I mean, recognizing that okay, if that self-doubt is there, if that anger is there, if I'm seeing someone else's something, and I'm like, oh, I'm feeling a certain way. Figure out what are you feeling? And maybe it is that it's like something that you see that you want to do or wish you could do, or don't feel, I don't know, you have the infrastructure to be able to do it. So figure that out. Like, okay, it's actually telling you something that has nothing to do with that individual, but all about what's going on for you. Maybe it's showing a gap that you want to fill, but you haven't done it yet. Right. So, yeah, to get really, really good at understanding what is going on inside. Because the reality is learning about yourself is actually going to help you in your business.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So last question is gonna be a two-parter before we wrap up. So, what is the cost to the business or ourselves when we shrink and constantly make ourselves smaller? Oh, and then what would you say to the woman entrepreneur or female identifying entrepreneur out there who knows that they need to be visible but feel exhausted?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Yeah, it's okay. So two-parter. Yeah, that's the small piece. And I love that you've mentioned that because I've been hearing that a lot lately from the professional lens and from clients and such. This piece around playing small, right? And I think, especially as women, right? Anyone who is in a group that has been marginalized, this idea that okay, I need to play small, people don't want to see this, or people expect less of. Forget about what other people are saying to you or expecting of you. Stop playing small. It's really hard. It's gonna probably take a lot of internal work, but when you play small, you can't put your gifts out there. When you play small, people are not gonna know you for your services. When you play small, you're actually minimizing that gift that you have inside that people need to see. Because ultimately you're gonna help somebody and they just don't know it yet, right? So stop playing small. And I know we all get to this place of maybe not today, but don't make that today be your forever. For today, maybe what you need to do, you need to go sit down, you need to close your eyes, you need to like refocus and recap and then come back, right? And then the second one is tell me again the second question.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

So, what would you say to the person who knows that they need to be visible but are just emotionally exhausted right now?

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yeah, okay. If you know you need to be visible and you're emotionally exhausted, let's take care of the emotional exhaustion. Okay. First and foremost, let's take care of that. If you are comfortable, you can even talk about your emotional exhaustion online because that's the reality of being an entrepreneur and being a business owner. We're not perfect 100% of the time. We're not even perfect, probably half the time. It's just about being there and showing up, right? I know what I think it was like a few months ago. I kind of showed the state of my kitchen. I'm like, this is my kitchen, there's dishes everywhere, and I'm gonna take an hour and clean it up, and I'll be right back. Right. Like this is the reality. So sometimes it's that, you know, that piece about being authentic. I think we're hearing that a lot these days. Like your authentic self doesn't mean that you have to show yourself only perfect, right? Your authentic self is just showing up how you are that day. And I know that's that's hard, especially in the day eight day and age of AI and a pictures and photos and everything is like crimmel polished, but you know, at the end of the day, people gravitate towards humans. And if you're being human and you're putting yourself out there, like your humanness, people are going to get it and gonna find you. And not only they're gonna want your services, but they're gonna really respect the person behind the service. I think that is really important.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah, and I like that you didn't say, well, just push through. No, because there's some of that too out there, right? Lily, you gotta just keep going. You gotta you gotta you gotta show up, you gotta do the thing. And I believe in, yeah, I think it's I think it's be human, feed what you need, take a break. Like, I I actually really believe in like slowing down to speed up. I think there's a power in the quiet. I think there's a power in the the the sitting in it, like feeling all the uncomfortableness of it and figuring out from like a really good place. Like, I don't like rush decisions, I don't like fast decisions. Usually they're not well thought out, and that usually comes from like this frantic energy. And so if we actually just like calm our nervous system, reset a little bit, whatever that means, even if it's 10 minutes, you know, then you can be better like long term and you're more rested, even just 10 minutes. Like it, we're not talking about take a whole day and go to a spa. I think like the toxic positivity of that too is bad. But like, like for me, for instance, I was saying to you before we even recorded that like I've come off of crazy travel and I have events from now until May 1st, which is like 10 days, and I don't have, I don't have, I'm not allowed, I don't have space to even be tired right now. So like I just have to pick it all up and go. But as of then when May first hits, let me tell you, I've got lunch booked with the friends, I've got like a shopping afternoon planned, like there is no work that day because I will have exhausted myself. And that's how I'm gonna fill my cup. And so it's not always like take the break just because you have to. Like sometimes we have to schedule it in. And that's how that's also my motivation. I'm like, okay, the next 10 days, we're gonna do it, no matter how tired I am. I don't have a choice, I have commitments, right? But on May 1st, I have something really nice and chill and relaxing and no pressure booked. And right, and that's a Friday, and it goes right into the weekend. So really it's like three full days, and that's the reset. Yeah, and so I think for everybody, like I will be emotionally exhausted. On April 30th, nobody talked to me. I'm gonna be like dead.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yes, you know, you have that time set up after, right? And that's the important piece.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah, I think that's really important. I think it's the part that's missing. I think it's like we all are are expected to just go, go, go, go, go, B, B, B, B, B, do, do, do, give, give, give. And then it's like, and then you wonder why we're snapping all the time. It's like, oh, she's just a menopausal woman. She's just angry. Like, you know? And it's like, no, it's because I'm I am. Yeah, I am pissed off because I've had to give everything and nobody's given to me. Right. That's usually what it is. So yeah, I think we can do more on this conversation too. So if you guys have questions, you want more things answered, let us know for our next segment. But we are wrapping for today. Natasha, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Great conversation. And yeah, I think for next time, absolutely, send in the questions.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Yeah, you can do a QA. Yeah. Okay, I'll post that. Can you let the people know where to find you?

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yes, everyone, you could reach out on all social platforms, Natasha Pennycook, Natasha with a C. So take out the S and put a C there instead. And yeah, you can hit us up on our social media, on our LinkedIn, our Instagram, and go to our website. Lots of great things on our website, natashapennycook.com. We have a men's group starting because May is mental health month. And we have a perimenopause group that is just about finishing, and we're looking to do our second cohort soon. And of course, we have our fabulous therapists who are always taking clients and just no waiting lists.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Amazing. And we'll have everything linked in the show notes too. But obviously, you can just DM and reach out that way. Thank you so much, lady. We'll see you next time. Talk so much. Bye.