Marketing Sucks
Marketing Sucks is the podcast for business owners who are looking for practical, fun, and strategic ways to get noticed online, and don’t want to sit through 30 minutes of filler to get to the good stuff.
Each week, Grind Social Media + Co founder Amanda Casinha sits down with the industry’s most interesting and unconventional ad experts, funnel developers, content creators, and changemakers to explore their off-the-beaten-path strategies and experiences in the world of marketing and business — and dig into real stories of failures, strategies, and how they got their jaw-dropping results.
Marketing Sucks
Scaling a Business With Integrity: Dr. Adrienne Shnier on Ethical Marketing, Student Success, and Staying in Your Lane
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This week on Marketing Sucks, Amanda and Phil are joined by Dr. Adrienne Shnier, founder and CEO of Apply Yourself Global, for a conversation about scaling a business without losing your integrity. Adrienne shares the story of how AYG grew from helping students with applications at a Starbucks table to becoming a revolutionary company for student success, admissions support, test prep, academic coaching, and career development. Together, they unpack why fear-based marketing, bogus guarantees, and big-box business tactics do not belong in a company built on trust, care, and real outcomes. From staying in your lane and refusing to lower your standards to building strong foundations, listening to your community, and creating offers based on what people actually need, this episode is a reminder that scaling slowly, intentionally, and ethically is not a weakness. It is the whole point. If you have ever felt pressure to market like everyone else, promise more than you can deliver, or rush the growth of your business, this conversation will bring you back to what actually matters.
What You’ll Learn
✔ How Apply Yourself Global started organically from Adrienne helping students at Starbucks
✔ Why AYG was built on integrity, student support, and real admissions committee insight
✔ What it means to scale a business without relying on fear-based marketing
✔ Why bogus guarantees can attract the wrong energy and damage trust
✔ How Adrienne stayed in her lane while other companies used pressure, panic, and big-box tactics
✔ Why strong foundations matter more than fast growth
✔ How building with integrity can feel slow, but creates a more sustainable business
✔ Why listening to your community is one of the best ways to create aligned offers
✔ How AYG expanded into admissions support, LSAT, MCAT, DAT prep, and academic coaching based on real student needs
✔ Why standards do not need to be lowered in order to grow
✔ How trust, care, and human connection can become your strongest brand differentiators
✔ Why ethical marketing is not just about what you say, but how people feel when they interact with your brand
About Dr. Adrienne Shnier
Dr. Adrienne Shnier is the founder and CEO of Apply Yourself Global, a student success and admissions support company helping students from high school through graduate, professional school, and beyond. With more than 15 years of experience on admissions committees, as a professor, lawyer, program director, and academic coach, Adrienne brings a deeply informed, human-first approach to admissions, test prep, academic success, and career development. Through AYG, she and her team support students with integrity, strategy, mindset, and personalized coaching, helping clients build strong applications, stronger confidence, and sustainable success.
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Welcome back to Marketing Sex. I am your host, Amanda Casinha.
SPEAKER_02And I'm your co-host, Phil Ginther.
SPEAKER_01And today we have the lovelian. Lovely and wow. I need a copy. I just mixed lovely. We have the lovely Dr. Adrian Schneer of Apply Yourself Global with us today. Hello, Adrian. Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_00I'm so happy to be here with you both.
SPEAKER_01Full disclosure, we are very good friends and we work together. So this is gonna be a fun conversation because if you don't know who Adrian is, she is one of the smartest human beings I think I know. And it's insane what she's accomplished in the short time that I've been lucky enough to work with her. So she's gonna, you know, dazzle us today with her genius. So what sucks this week, Phil? Before we get into it.
SPEAKER_02The number of businesses that try to scale just to a slimy tactics and just like a complete lack of integrity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Agreed, Adrian? A hundred percent. You know, I could talk about this for the rest of the month.
SPEAKER_02You got about 40 minutes.
SPEAKER_01You got about, yeah, we can do it. I have confidence. We're gonna do it. But before we get into that, that is what we are gonna talk about today. We're gonna just talk about like staying in your lane, what it means to actually grow a business in integrity, do all your marketing from that space, and what that actually looks like. Because I think that, you know, sometimes we get a little bit slighted by seeing what everybody else is doing, and then we forget what actually we have to offer and that we can do things differently. So before we get into that huge conversation, give us, because I know you can speak for a long time, give us the Cole's notes on what Apply Yourself Global, which will be referred to as AYG from this point forward. What is Apply Yourself Global, who you are, how you actually created this? Because I love this story. I've heard it a million times, but I love it. So tell it to our listeners.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And Amanda knows that I can talk for a long time because she edits all of my content. So you're welcome. Yes, I do. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Amanda lives in my brain and we love it that way. My name is Dr. Adrienne Schneer. I'm the CEO and founder of Apply Yourself Global. We are, and I said this, you know, before, you know, long before, probably earlier than we met. And it's only becoming more and more true that we are a revolutionary company for student success and support. And what I mean by that is not only do we specialize in admissions, based on my, you know, decade plus 15 plus years now of experience on admissions committees themselves, as faculty, as a program director at a law school, as a lawyer, but for student success and academic success generally and with integrity. And I think that this is such a great topic for today, because there's integrity in marketing, there's integrity in learning, there's integrity in academia. And I think that that's a really huge part of a con a much larger conversation now. And so here at AYG, we do everything with integrity, supporting our clients through their academic success from grade nine all the way through to undergrad, through undergrad, into their graduate and professional school programs, and then beyond professional school through professional school, and then beyond professional school into their careers and beyond. So we really take pride in the work that we do with students. Their lives completely change and transform. Their families, we've received so much feedback from parents that their relationships with their kids improve because the parents are not sitting on Google trying to figure out what their kids need and the requirements. You just come here and you get it from me, from our academic coaches, from our LSAT, MCAT, DAT coaches. We have an over 95% success rate for our clients getting into graduate and professional schools on their first try. And we wouldn't have it any other way.
SPEAKER_01So tell me how this started because I love your story. Because it's kind of similar to mine where it was like, it was like an accidental company. You were like just doing something one day, and then somebody asked for help, and then you realized, oh, I think I have something here.
SPEAKER_00So tell us how that all began. Yeah, 100%. So this all started way back in 2014 when I was writing my PhD dissertation, and I was one of those people who took over those long Starbucks tables, like the long ones. And I had all of my books out. I had all of my printed articles out because I'm writing my dissertation. So of course I'm sorting through all kinds of literature. And I had students and families in that Starbucks, and it was a two-level Starbucks on Avenue in Toronto. I had parents and families and students come up to me and say, What, like, what is this? Like, is this really necessary?
SPEAKER_03Like, what are all these books?
SPEAKER_00And I would say I'm working on my dissertation. They would say, Oh, you know, my kid wants to go to grad school, my kid wants to go to law school, my kid wants to go to dental school. I want to go and do a master's in genetic counseloring or a master's in fashion something or a master's in whatever, like pick your thing, MBA. And I would say, Great, I've already been on admissions committees for three years since 2011. I can help you if you want, you know, print out your materials, bring them back. Of course, this was before like email and drives took over the world. So they would print them out and they came back to me with their materials. And I would sit with them and I would redline and I would highlight and I would tell talk to them about the structure that committees are actually looking for and the kind of content that committees are actually looking for in written materials. Because what I've seen on committees is that the numbers are a part of the story, but they're not determinative, meaning that if you have what I call hell yes materials, hell yes written materials, they can outweigh numbers in a way that would actually be shocking and in a way that sometimes still shocks me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So if you have those hell yes materials, your numbers, your numbers can very easily be outweighed in so many situations. And so this all began with me really helping students and applicants tell their stories. And I would listen and I would, you know, a lot of it I think was intuition and just knowing sort of what to ask and when and how much to ask and when to back off and when I could ask a little bit more, all for the purpose of building this amazing set of materials, personal statement, autobiographical sketch, short answer, whatever it was. And they would then take their materials and I never thought I would see them again. I never thought I would see them again. And then they would come back with another draft. And I was like, oh, okay, so we're not working on our dissertation today. We're we're actually doing applications. And so they would then take their second round of revisions and they would go and do them. Sometimes I would see them again, sometimes I wouldn't. And I thought, okay, well, like I hope, I hope it worked. And then about, you know, a couple months later, in whatever admission cycle it was, because they're they're always overlapping throughout the year, they would come back and tell me I got in. And student after student, applicant after applicant, parent after parent would come back and be like, Hey, could I buy you a coffee? They got in. I'm so happy. And you know, like you've changed everything for them, and they got this wild scholarship and you know, all of these amazing results from Starbucks. And I really didn't think anything of it because I was also a professor at the time and I was already teaching for a couple of years, and I was going to law school next. And so I was like, okay, well, like I'm helping people get in. That's great.
SPEAKER_01Because Adrian has all the free time in the world, as you can probably tell, right? The I oh just I'm cutting you off for a second. I we need to make this very clear. Like, we're talking about somebody who's writing a PhD dissertation about to go to law school, like, sit is a professor sitting on admissions committee, sitting at this table, and then just being like, Yeah, sure, I'll help you.
SPEAKER_02I yeah, yeah, for zero money. Usually you're like, yeah, you know, I was doing these things on the city.
SPEAKER_01All for free, right? Like that was that was early days. But yes, okay, so let's let's continue, let's fast forward a little bit. So we're at, you know, now these people are coming back to you, you're heading, you know, to to finish up your own stuff. At what point did AYG like become a solid, like, you know what, we're registering this, we're doing this, I'm gonna create my program and all my like proprietary stuff, and we're gonna like make this serious now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, after Starbucks and the lineup at my Starbucks table, which was which was fun knowing that I had, you know, 12 people to get to in a day, I then went to law school and I just kept doing this on the side. This wasn't like a it wasn't a thing. I wasn't paid. It was like, hey, Adrian does this, she goes to Starbucks, go find her. And people would. So then I went through law school. I was a professor at the same time, and I I got to see really interestingly being on both sides. So, like being a student and who's being evaluated, and also being a professor in the next building. So this is really how the mindset and peak performance piece was built was being really in this difficult spot of seeing really how toxic academia can be for students who are receiving grades and being evaluated, and also then going into my own classroom and being hyper-aware of the kind of environment that I was creating for students. So then I went through law school, I became a lawyer, and this was I was called to the bar in 2019, and then I opened my firm in 2020, or I think, I think I'm maybe I was called in 2020. I think I was called in 2020. And then I opened my firm right then and there. And this was like first lockdown, like early stages. I had just had my daughter, and I was, you know, I had come from some some really great law firms, and I just needed to be able to control my own schedule. And I ended up starting my own firm immediately, right out of articling with some great mentors. And it was a year later, I was building this firm from, you know, my basement in between naps, and my it got to be about a year in. And I thought, you know what? Like, I gotta get out of the house. I need an office. So we went looking for an office, which was a great time actually to go looking for real estate on a main road. And we I found a place, it was just me in this, what seemed like a really big space. And then I had somebody call me for an application. And I thought, why would I go to Starbucks when they could just come here? And that's how apply yourself was first ever like that's that time I ever even considered it to be a something I could do and be paid for. When, like, oh wait, I'm taking time away now from my law firm files. So yeah, I should probably ask for payment here because I'm spending all this time and and all of that. So it was years, it was years. And then I started be like being able to sort of visualize families coming into the office and what that would look like. And then I started having people in the office and um and doing it on Zoom still. And that's really when when it became something. I I remember I was visiting somebody who was who was recovering from surgery, and I was like, oh, why don't I call it apply yourself? Because like they could you could apply yourself and apply yourself and get in. Like that's that was when it was literally named in a hospital.
SPEAKER_01What but what was the full name before when I met you? I found I found an old say, you know, say the longest, the longest company.
SPEAKER_00But there were so many iterations of it. Yeah, it was apply yourself education and admission support. It was apply yourself the advancement spot inc. That was the most recent one. That's when Amanda joined when when it was the long one. She was like, How do you want me to make a logo out of this?
SPEAKER_01She's like, I should say, I'm like, we're gonna rebrand because it was she was like, I just did everything myself ahead of Yay. I was like, Yeah, we're gonna don't worry, we're gonna we're gonna help you out here. And I was like, So the name, are we attached to the name? Can is can we can we possibly shorten this by like 14 letters? Because like this is a mouse.
SPEAKER_00We need to we need it to. But you know the interesting thing was that apply yourself global is what it obviously is called. Yeah, and that's what the Instagram handle always was because we knew that the name was too long.
SPEAKER_01And now and then I was like, and then I remember because I I think it was actually the first year I was living in Portugal, maybe, or the second year, because that's when I was designing that logo. Yeah, I think it was the second year we were living in Portugal because I remember being it was like like 10 p.m. my time, and I'm like, okay, we're gonna present these logos. And I was like, so I think, guys, if we're gonna do this, why don't we just use the the Instagram handle as the company name? And then I remember that caller. We was like, oh yeah, that's fantastic. And then Jonathan got to work, just like getting everything like settled and trademarked and everything. So that was fantastic. But yeah, so that was that was a long time ago. Mm-hmm. Okay. And then, so then from there, so now we're running AYG. We are, and we're also running a law firm. Again, Adrian has no time on her hands or all the time on her hands. And so then it got to a certain point where you really started to expand. You started to hire, you started to bring people on and the team. And we really had to actually set up like not that we weren't doing real marketing, it was just big marketing now, right? Now it was like, okay, website redone, emails redone, all of our sequences, like ads are starting to go out. We're doing free, like, you know, your big info sessions that you host quarterly, which are awesome. And we'll talk about those later because you have one coming up. But when you so that's where we're at now, right? We're doing all like the good big things that are obviously working. We're scaling with integrity, love that all. But I want to go back to that pot that part where it was apply yourself the advancement spot ink. Okay. So did you at that point don't forget the podcast was called the advancement spot? Yeah. And then I made her change it to Success Unlocked, which is now a very good podcast. I also used to listen to her podcast on like two times the speed in my kitchen, like with the kids, because I'm like, I need to learn this girl's voice because you talk so specifically. So to get the writing and the brand voice down was like, like now, I I remember I think my biggest compliment was that your mom or your sister read a post and they were like, oh my God, that was so like that was such a great post. And you're like, I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't even read the content that Amanda puts out. I thought that was great. I was like, okay, I've nailed it. But let's go back, okay, let's go back to that, right? So advancement spot, all the stuff. Did you feel pressure at that time to market the way that the other like large admissions companies were? And I want to be clear like, I we don't consider those guys your competition because they do things very differently than AYG does. But being like that quote unquote, like small fish, big pond, were you feeling or did you ever feel pressure to market the way they did?
SPEAKER_00So I think this is a great question. So the thing where I'll start is everything that has happened is h in AYG has happened so organically that I would there's a lot of foresight into what is where we're going and what's happening and what we're creating. But in the moment, I have never, never felt the need to do what others are doing in order to get there. And I wouldn't even say get there because what I call big box companies, like their version of what they've created is so different than what we would ever even consider create. Like it's not even within this, it's not even in the same universe, honestly, what we are doing versus what they are doing. So, but I think that to the average, like to the to the person who maybe doesn't know the backstory and who doesn't know where we've come from, you might put us in the same category as them. And so like some people would consider us them to be our competition. And I think that, you know, it's so important to know that, and I and you know, honestly, and I'll say that I think that and I'll speak for myself, like I'm I feel very lucky that I found you when I did because I think that there are many other options who who some of whom I tried and some of whom we have tried together for various things, and and they they don't get it. They don't get it, they don't, and I'm talking specifically about whether you want to talk about like paid ads companies or social companies or VAs or whoever, like whoever it is you're thinking about. Listen, I went through them, I dealt with, I I like I dealt with it. It was everybody just wants the work on paper and they just want to tick the boxes. And so they would give me every, every single one. I'm talking, I'm not talking one company, I'm talking two, three, four that we have been through five VA. Like we d we've everybody says all you need is a VA, all you need is a. No, actually, I would I would now push really, really hard back on that. You know how much pressure I I got from like business coaches that I had to think, you should delegate. Your standards are too high. They're giving you work, and you're telling them that you know the commas in the wrong place. And I'm like, Yeah, because we're a company that teaches people how to write. Oh god. The box, can we just stop the commas?
SPEAKER_01Can we talk about it?
SPEAKER_02Yes, we can. Even I know this rule.
SPEAKER_01Phil, what was the first thing that you were told on your onboarding when you joined the company that you own with me?
SPEAKER_02Your life depends on whether or not you place an Oxford comma in this sentence.
SPEAKER_01So we actually have a standard rule after working with Adrian, because there was one comma that wasn't in place once and only once, and it's never happened again, that every single client, no matter what you believe in, because you know that's a thing apparently is like belief in commas. We only use Oxford commas. Yeah. Only in our own stuff, in other people's stuff. In my day-to-day life, I now find myself correcting just random text messages so that I have an Oxford comic.
SPEAKER_02It feels age appropriate.
SPEAKER_01But it's true, and I think that I don't think you ever have to lower standards. That's fucking weird. I think it has to be about like, nope, just buying people who definitely that. Yeah, I think we just need to find people that meet our standards and then also exceed them with their own like level of you know, creativity and thought and whatever.
SPEAKER_02But like the standard should especially for like a service you're paying for.
SPEAKER_01That too. It's weird. That's a weird thing to say.
SPEAKER_02Because I know that's how you that's how you show up as well. Like, you know, for anyone who's enrolled in your program, you want to deliver the best possible experience. Here's my thing.
SPEAKER_01I think why we also worked so well is number one, I'm O C D about everything, so that's fine. Number two, I'm I also come from like an academic space. Like I've gone to university, I have multiple degrees, I have postgraduate education. Like I understand the space. I too also took my LSATs. Like, I actually get this world. So that's that's also a very unique component of like what we can offer you because we have a different like level of understanding of the student than most like just random people do, right? Like, unless you're finding somebody with that qualification, also in marketing, which is like rare.
SPEAKER_00So no that's a little bit different. It's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's no, it's so far beyond checking the boxes that like the boxes, I would say actually don't even exist because we're constantly creating. Yes. Like the boxes don't exist. Like you will find Amanda's billion to-do lists and and post-it notes about us and our deadlines and our company and what we need and when we need it, and this is gonna overlap with that. So don't do it this way, but then but then we have to do, you know, don't not on this day, but 24 hours later, and all of this. And there's but there's you will find all of this, and then you're gonna find like all of the sub-to-dos because we didn't know that we needed extra check boxes, but now we have them. So this is the thing like you are like just the ability to come and work on ideas with you and to say, this is what we're gonna, this is like what we're doing next, and for you to even say, Hey, like I see an opportunity here for something to create. Like, we truly we co-create so much. And that is something that you will never get from anybody who's interested in checking boxes and who's interested in like just getting out the bare minimum deliverable so that you satisfy like the to-do. Like it the to-do doesn't exist. It actually does, it would not function if it was on a if it was just like, oh, well, this is what we had to do for the month, so that's it. Like it's it's not that at all. But that's what every anybody else that I had ever breathed in the same room as creating this that's how everybody functions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think, and also I feel like that's also what other like competitors in your space are doing too. It's just like, okay, say this thing, okay, do this thing, okay, have this guarantee, that's what sells. So I know that we have we have many care conversations about guarantees behind the scenes, but what are some of the things that you're seeing now or have seen in the past that competitors or the people in your space were doing online, like from a marketing standpoint, that made you feel uncomfortable? Because I feel like there this happens in every industry. And I want people to hear from someone who's never actually like swayed from what it is that she does to meet like. to even or like to even try and go in the direction of bogus close experiences.
SPEAKER_02That's what I was going to call them then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think so I think that like and this perspective comes from a place of having been in the classroom. I've taught over 13,000 students now from being on these committees, from being on from being in situations where I'm hearing stories of people constantly and also not just acting in academic integrity as a professor and as a program director, but also teaching students about academic integrity and what that means and how to write and how to how to analyze and all of this. AI is is you know another layer of this conversation. But the so the integrity piece, I mean, I think part of it just comes from being just pissed off. Like that's my tell is like if I'm pissed off by something, then it probably doesn't have integrity in my books. Right. And I also have a very strong sense of what is right and what is wrong. Like I I've always been very principled. And so this isn't coming from a place of like, oh like but they did it so maybe it could be right or it's not like explicitly illegal. So maybe it's okay. Like there's right. You know so like and and also having my like legal training I know like actually what is illegal and what is not, what is just unethical and what is not, what is immoral, what is not. But you know the companies that so my point of my point of talking about the classroom is I'm actually actively in the room with students at their most vulnerable times. Like they are coming to me. I mean I'm receiving all kinds of accommodations letters and and letters of you know like you know like death certificates and like I've like pictures of injuries to prove that they can't can't make it to class. Like like I see it all every single semester. And then and I was also a student who paid the big box companies for LSAT prep. I paid a consultant for personal statement prep when I was applying to med school many moons ago. And when I started doing AYG esque work in Starbucks it came from a place of just like organic authenticity and helping somebody tell their story. And so then when I turn around from a business perspective and because it's also been a real real process of growth not just calling myself a CEO but becoming a CEO like those are two different things. You can name yourself anything you want but actually doing the work is a different thing. And so then having my professor hat on having my lawyer hat and and also then seeing all of these ads from other companies that would have scared me as a student. Like I would have thought oh my God and I know that students are thinking this now because I'm here I talk to them and I I felt this way was these students they're going to get scared they're going to fail. Like these ads are literally saying basically you're going to fail. Watch out like there's there's so there's and the imagery on the ads I won't claim anything too specific but it's a little much I've exactly what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah some of it's some of it's very predatory in my opinion. Like it's very much right and it's and it's also the language the language is just like you're gonna amount to nothing if you don't work with us and it's fucked up yeah I've loved that from day one you've had a hot take on like fear based marketing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah we don't do it here. That's not a thing. No no not at all and when when we see that kind of thing we we we I mean I I have never felt in any way pressured to do it because that's it's not how I want students to come into our space. I want students to come into our space because they resonate with what we do and how we do it. And if that's what they're coming in for and they're coming in because they saw some guarantee online, listen like we have an amazing success rate. We have an amazing success rate. I could easily guarantee that because it's been 15 years of an amazing success rate. Right. But I will never do that because it attracts a different it attracts a different vibe. Yeah. It's so we're doing it the way that resonates with us because you have to put in the work like the guarantee and any guarantee that you find I mean read the fine print because you'll never qualify for it. And then you'll have to open a complaints line because you're gonna have to have somebody who deals with all of the people who are saying well I should qualify for this guarantee and then you're gonna have to tell them actually you don't qualify, read the fine print. And you just have all of these people students who have who have enrolled in a program that they thought was going to get them somewhere and parents who place their trust in you all because of a guarantee and fear-based marketing online and then and then every single thing that comes from that is based on that fear. It's not based on opening up it's not based on centering yourself. It's not based on getting to know yourself it's not based on mindset peak performance it's not based on growing it's not based on bettering who you are and finding like finding your future and creating that it's about what do I have to do to get the guarantee. It's not about what you're creating over there. And so any of that tactic has never even been it's not even in our universe because it's so misaligned with how we do it. So there's never been pressure we have sat and we've talked about what they do because and the conversation has literally been we will never do that. We will never do that. And there are other like and and you know you'll also know this company that I won't name but they they advised us to use those strategies and they were gone 24 hours later like we have no tolerance for it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and it's but what it is to me it's like it's the full picture right this isn't just like advertising goals and company goals it's actually what's the goal for the student. And the student coming in is to have the full rounded experience and so it can't be based in fear because that's not what you're about. And so unfortunately what ends up happening with the other companies is that students will see that type of marketing and this is anybody that uses fear-based marketing I think in any industry you see that you get like you're in a vulnerable spot you get pulled in you spend lots of fucking money and you're not getting the results because that's not actually what you needed. What you needed was a different approach and somebody who actually gave a shit about you. So a lot of times you know we say at AYG you're not a number because you actually aren't we know like I know the students' names and I'm not even in the company like I'm just the marketing team but like I literally I'm not gonna say just we are like a big part of the company director. Yeah yeah I am the media director on the in the company but you know at the end of the day like I even know the students' names and when I go to events and I get to see them and they're like oh I'm so and so it's like oh I know you like don't worry I see I've seen you on the podcast I edited you I see you in our posts I see you in our emails I see you everywhere right because they're like oh we you know we wondered who was behind the scenes and doing that. I'm like yep this is our but that's but that's actually what we mean by you're not a number like go like I think about other companies and I'm like like I know who the customers are in our other clients' businesses and it's because like we're we we actually do care right and we work with companies that care. We don't want to work with companies where we we we live in a silo and we're just like here to give you data. Like that's not ever how we've processed. So I love that about you guys because you've never wavered and a lot of companies can go back and forth right and they can be like no we have to try that and we have to do like let's do something different. So in that the question that I have is why does integrity feel like slow and but also why is that important for the long term because I feel like I feel like you are a good person to ask this question because I I actually have never seen you wavering. So it's it's like very becoming so tell us why why is integrity feel so slow when it comes to like building the brand you know it's the same as anything else.
SPEAKER_00There's no magic pill for anything that is sustainable. It's the same for anything else like you can't go to the gym lift weights for two weeks and expect to become a bodybuilder. Like that's not gonna happen. You can't like you know when I was you know recovering from my broken ankle four years ago or whatever recovery was slow but it happened with integrity because I needed to walk like I couldn't just get up and walk. So in the same way building with integrity means that you're building in a way that is sustainable meaning that there are pieces you have to put into place and things and and systems you have to build. And when the systems don't have integrity and the people who are responsible for the systems don't have integrity or purport to have integrity and then you find out that they do not you're building on just faulty foundation like it you will crumble you will fall and you won't be able to do the thing that you love and you won't be able to create because there will be nothing to create on because this happens so organically like I never thought that I would run a company ever, let alone two like I never thought I would have a team and I thought you know I'll work at a law firm and I'll be a professor and that'll be like that's traditional and that's expected. That's what anybody ever expected of me. People actually in my life are only just starting to understand that oh this is what you do. Like you're not you know so I never so that's been a lot of growth for me. So it's it's been not just the sustaining of like the systems and the building of the systems in a certain way it's also been building with the right people knowing who's not the right people and also growing into the identity of these are my decisions. And other people could say it's slow. I actually, you know what's funny is I don't actually hear other people's comments anymore about really anything that I'm doing. Isn't that funny? That I don't hear them like I like there's a there's like a filter now that I don't even hear it anymore which is wonderful.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00It's so cool. It's so cool like and I realized that I mean a few times but just now when I was trying to think of an example for you and I was like I actually can't think of a recent one. It's not that it hasn't happened yeah it's that it's that I I now have this like it's like an identity filter where if this is not in alignment with what I'm doing and what I'm building I actually just don't hear it anymore. Like it's a waste of my time. And so when you're when you're building you need the foundations and I know I know the foundations are not a fast thing. Like you always see the people you know when they lay cement like on the sidewalk and there's always those people who like step in the pavement to see if it's right and then that should be there forever. Yeah like like I'm not the person who's stepping in the pavement is it ready? Like it has to be built yeah so we have had many sleepless nights building the right foundations and no one will ever see that work. The students won't see it the clients won't see it the team won't see it but Amanda and I have seen it yes we have and and but that's because we're building something here that is that is sustainable because it provides like because the work is so important and I think that that's the thing if if if you don't give a crap about the work you don't care what kind of foundation it's built on and so it's it's a combination of so many things and it's it's really being being okay with that time.
SPEAKER_01Sitting in that time and being uncomfortable with how long time can take sometimes yeah and I think that that's the part that people don't get right because we're now in an age of the chat GBTs, the claude, over now whatever it is all the AI stuff that gives it to you right away, right? But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's good. So what ends up happening is then you do you have cracks in the foundation you have not sturdy foundation and so something really true and good takes a long time to build. And because we live in a world in a society where we are expected to just you know results now da da da all these things like that makes people then not trust time. Yeah it makes people impatient it makes people cut corners it lowers standards it does all those things and then what ends up happening is that you can have the best product and the best service and the best team but everything else has just been like kind of haphazardly like laid down and then you wonder why you know customer service is crumbling or the person isn't getting this or da-da-da or who's on top of that or blah blah blah. You need to have proper, a proper like just footing before you start anything. So I really do hate the world that we are in where everybody expects something quickly like even just like oh yeah yeah just edit that quick and it's like no no I need to explain like I'm not gonna explain like I shouldn't even have to explain sometimes I do not to you but like to other people like sometimes I have to explain like why something costs the as much as it does. I'm like it actually takes three different people to do that. Oh well I could just do AI. Okay then go to fucking AI. Like I don't know what to tell you. If you're unwilling to pay for like years of experience and we can do it faster and better than AI and also make it not look like AI and we're gonna give you the recommendations and how to position it and all the thing why are we having this conversation if you don't want to pay then just go to AI. Like I don't I don't really care and I also won't budge right I'm not gonna lower my standards to meet you in your little you know dirty pool over there. Like I don't care. Like it I'm that's not for me then. Like I want people that will push us also to see the vision to push us to do the real work to do it properly. And maybe sometimes it does take one or two tries because you realize the people that were in there before did a shit job. So I got to stay up until 3 a.m to fix all the issues but it's fine. Now it's good. But like you know you have to you really have to look at it from the perspective you're laughing.
SPEAKER_00You have to look at probably laughing because he's thinking of what he's just built for us. You know what it is you want to talk about time and building foundations this is a perfect example.
SPEAKER_01But do you know that Phil's so lucky because he got to start from ground zero nothing like this existed. So he didn't I had I came in and I was like you were clean up who's a fucking janitor from the symptoms what's his name like just like I'm just like coming in there Willie yeah I'm just like I'm coming in I have to clean up all the mess before I could even start to lay a bloody brick down like I could I could not do my job until I cleaned everybody else's fucking mess up. You had the pleasure of coming in after the mess during like scaling Adrian which is like a beautiful a beautiful land to live in and then you're building like yeah and then we're like building you know and by mess I literally just mean tech stuff like nothing actually like the what's funny here is that the program, the people all of that was just a running machine. I don't think anybody realized what was happening it was nobody realized the thing.
SPEAKER_00And I'll say I'll say what it was it was it was just tech. It was it was yeah it was like back end systems where we hired a couple people from and and we knew them sort of like through other communities and they purported to be experts in this certain tech and they actually just didn't know what they were doing. So then it was me and Amanda up figuring out just how to figuring it out rebuild and in some cases just just use different platforms and start from scratch and build in a way that was like that was clean that we knew okay and this is also how Amanda over the years have has taken on so much for AYG is I'm just like okay Amanda I'm not hiring another person here.
SPEAKER_02What can you do?
SPEAKER_00But you know what I'm gonna you're gonna bring this one on what it I'm like why is she smiling like that?
SPEAKER_01No but like and here's the thing though is that like the the scaling part of this company has taught us all patience because we all realize like okay we can't go forward until we deal with that little like tech stack piece of the company that we've been avoiding also. Some of it was just avoidance. We're like we don't really need it right now do we have to do this now? Can we be focusing on other like revenue generating or new programs or like what can we be doing other than tackling the elephant in the room and then Phil is on like the new like other back end stuff and I'm like now we have to tackle this because he needs like access to everything. So and it's fine but I think everything it's that scaling has like taught us all patience and all aspects of everything. But I think it's great because now it just feels seamless, right? Like you just launched a new program and we did it in four weeks. Yeah. Ooh like from idea from idea to sex from idea to sale like to the first sale was four weeks.
SPEAKER_00And even some time in there also that was just like we were doing other priorities. Like I think yeah it probably actually crunched it all together it would have been a week.
SPEAKER_01I think so too. Yeah I think so too. Well we were also like doing like other stuff but yeah I think but what was what's fantastic about that is that that wasn't possible like five years ago because there was so much of that foundational work that had to be done while you know you're also servicing your entire community right so it's like it's a lot of work and it was just you and now we have like a beautiful growing team I've seen that go insane like you have so many coaches like ElSAT, MCAT, dad, and then you have like your you know your client success team and then you have like your management team and then you have like your fellows which are past students that you know have gotten into their law schools and work with you and so and work with the client. So I think that's incredible to see and I think that that scaling and that patience I've seen over time do like amazing things for the company and also for yourself. Cause as you said like you never saw yourself as a like you know running two one let alone two companies and so like seeing yourself yourself step into that has been really cool to be like a part of because I love as you know like if I see the potential in like that startup company like I'm in it for the long haul because I know where this is going. And for me that's like really important because then it means like we're all on the same page. We all have that same goal and we're all gonna make it like fabulous. And it's been really cool to witness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and I'll say that you know the scaling like the growth has also been very organic. Like we listen to what the clients need.
SPEAKER_03Right?
SPEAKER_00Like we're not just like let's build another program and sell it for volume. Like that's not our MO. Like that is not how we do things. We listen to what they need. So for example when we had clients saying okay you know I'm working with you on my applications I don't want to go to another company for my LSAT or MCAT or dot I thought okay well maybe we'll build like a test prep department. And to me that was like something you know that was like a five year thing. Okay, so we'll do it in the next five years. It was too it was I think a year from the point that I that I sort of thought about it from the year that we had our first several set several coaches. We listen also we're not like I it's so important that in providing these services for people who are relying on you, that we listen to what they tell us and we also improve based on what they tell us. We just launched another program we have our we have our regular programs that run year round based on need, based on what we're hearing in our strategy calls, based on what we're hearing in coaching itself from current clients. And we're always iterating based on based on what we're hearing and what we're seeing. So it's also not like a we're not guessing at what people need either. And then I'm always putting myself back in the student's shoes and I know you that you guys are too with the question of okay so when as we build this like what will what do they actually need? Not what can we wrap up in a shiny bow and pretend that you know pretend that because the graphics are great which they always are that this will benefit them. It's okay what is the substance here? And the fact that you guys take the time to also understand the substance and listen to every single word and and and when I think well Amanda it doesn't need any editing and you're like Adrian the last the last recording she's like you know what I think it's gonna actually be really quick.
SPEAKER_01I was like mm-hmm and then she's like yeah yeah it'll be fine like I like really it was like I'm I really liked the way it was and listen and it was fantastic but there was like 400 pauses those are thinking because Adrian yeah they are like Adrian's very what's the word like intentional select yeah intentional like selective about how she wants to deliver material because everything makes like like it's literally life changing for somebody that purchases that course because it literally gets them into their program. Like it it's it's very very important that she uses the right language to help them in that process. But sometimes Adrien oversells it to me where she's like it's Fine, it's perfect. You could just you honestly, you don't even need to edit it. And I'm like, you know, I'm gonna listen to the entire four hours, and it's fine. Like, I put it and then I'm making notes and the team, and but you know, there's there's a care that goes into it because I know what irks you in certain things, so it would never even pass through, other than that random glitch when we uploaded. And you're like, why is the beginning like this? And I was like, I don't fucking know what the hell is happening. But that was a weird tech day. I feel like that was just the universe being stupid. Yeah, it was yeah. But like literally, we have certain like, as Phil knows, like we just have like markers, like it's like, nope, this is a no pass on for this client, and this is an absolute fuck no on this client, and this is the standard here. I mean, the standard's always the highest for us, but we have certain clients that have just like, you know, certain markers for what they like and how they like it. And that's part of our job to make sure it's delivered that way, but it goes more than just like how you like it. We're also looking at it from okay, how is this being like marketed to the student in a way that feels supportive, not sales-y? And so we craft the way that we, you know, write. And really, we're just using your words in a in anything that we're doing, but it's just the way that we craft it so that it's not like because that's not the level of service they're gonna get. Their service is supportive, so the language needs to be supportive. And you said something interesting, which is like we're not just building things to build things, we're listening to our community. And I think if more people just listened to the, like actually gave a shit about their community, like really care about that, the people that are buying from you, really, you'd realize how much gold you're sitting on in terms of like what's the next offer or what the next post is, or what the next just like insert X, right? So it just listen a little more. Like we're always like nobody's listening enough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think for for me, it's been awesome to watch you operate because you have so much going on, right? Like there is always something to be done, but here we are having a real conversation about slowing down and having great and uh like intention in what we do. And so it's it's wild to me that both of those things can be true at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we're not actually moving slowly. Like for us, we're like slow.
SPEAKER_00No, no, I think I think that we think it's slow because it's because we have we always have like the next seven ideas. Yes, that's why I think for for some people who may have fewer ideas, it may not feel so slow. But I feel like we think it's what do we need to do to get here and here and here and and like this idea, and then we're I oh I just registered those two domain names that I told you I would. I saw I saw it.
SPEAKER_01I also got a I got a voice note just being like, also just so you know, this isn't for right now. Please don't leave me. And I'm like, oh my god, this woman. I'm going to I'm like, I'm just gonna ignore it. I literally just hearted it. I was like, I understand. Okay, before we wrap up, because we both have to go. I want to know what do you hope students and families feel when they interact with AYG? So online, in person, in sessions, what's what do you hope that they're feeling?
SPEAKER_00I hope that they're feeling that there is a space to feel real and aligned, that you don't have to give in to the forums and to stuff that's online for clickbait and to like what you perceive other people are doing and the speed at which you perceive other people are doing it. I think that I want I want everybody to feel like they're, you know, it's the same like when they're when when clients and and others are on my podcast, I tell them, like we do no prep, just like we did no prep for today. And and I tell them, I just want, I just want everyone to feel like they're sitting down and having a coffee with us. Nothing is stuffy, nothing is fake. You like that they don't have to worry that we're posturing or placating or or doing anything just for the click, that it's we are here to help you. And in this world of just just so much online crap, that there is something that you can grow to trust. Because there are real people here, like our team is in person, right? I mean, our coaches for test prep are across Canada because they're at their different, you know, professional schools, but our our core team is in person. I refuse to give in to the online models. So when parents come in here and they see our client wall and they see that our clients mean something to like their kids' faces on the wall. And it's not like, you know, when you used to go to the orthodontist and like they had all the little pictures of everybody before and after. It's not like that. It's like a massive wall with like all of our client wins and photos of like then coming to our office and and going out together and like it's community. It's a community wall, actually, is what it is. And that's what I want everybody to feel. I want them to feel that you're part of a community that that helps you become your most successful, most elevated self in a healthy, sustainable way. And in a way that you're building those foundations. And yes, I mean, I think that the this is I mean, gosh, this is just why we're so aligned all the time because it's not fast. It can feel slow. And in the grand scheme of things, is it fast? Yeah, probably. But when you're applying to schools, it can feel slow. When you're getting that be in the class that you thought you wouldn't, it it sucks. It sucks, but it's not, it's not the end, right? There's always ways to deal with it and work around it. And so I think a place that you can come and be you and be aligned and be real does actually exist. And, you know, it's it's here wherever you are because we're online too. So all of you know, coaching is online or in person. Parents can come, parents can, you know, not come, like it's their, it's the student or it's both. Sometimes it's families, just that you can come and be real and you don't have to worry about the online crap because there's actual integrity with the work here.
SPEAKER_01I love it.
SPEAKER_00All said.
SPEAKER_01Well, we are gonna link everything. We do have, I'm gonna shamelessly plug you. We have an info session coming up in a couple of weeks from when this episode airs. So we're gonna have all that up. And that is for anybody who's listening who is a parent or student or thinking of going to do a program where Adrian's just gonna give free information about what to look for for admissions. So we'll link everything below. And where can we find you, Adrian?
SPEAKER_00On Instagram at ApplyYourself Global is the best place to get a really quick response. You can also email me Adrian at applyyourselfglobal.com. I'm sure Amanda will put it in. And Instagram is the easiest way at apply yourself global. It's me in the DMs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is. It actually is. I'm actually not in the DMs. That is the one place I am not. But you guys, if you have any questions for Adrian, just shoot her a message. Or you could shoot us a message too. Thanks so much. This was fun. Feel barely talked. Thanks for thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_02I want to know, I want to make note of something. You guys checked, like speaking of boxes, every single thing I had. I was like, well, why'd I even write that down? Like just you got you have a flow state.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, we could probably go on for like seven hours, but we need to actually log off now. Thank you. All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye bye. Bye.
