Email Marketing That Builds Community, Trust, and Sales

This week on Marketing Sucks, Amanda and Phil are talking about why email marketing is not dead, but the way most businesses are using it absolutely needs help. Instead of treating your email list like a place to blast sales messages 24/7, Amanda breaks down how to use email as a community-building tool that creates trust, conversation, loyalty, and long-term sales. They unpack why people unsubscribe, why generic newsletters fall flat, how to send emails people actually want to open, and why your brand voice matters more than ever in an inbox full of AI-generated content. From welcome sequences and abandoned cart flows to behind-the-scenes storytelling, segmentation, real tips, replies, and consistency, this episode is a practical reminder that your email list is one of the few marketing assets you actually own. If your emails feel like they are going nowhere, this conversation will help you rethink the way you show up in the inbox.

What You’ll Learn
✔ Why email marketing is still one of the most valuable tools in your business
✔ The biggest mistake businesses make when they only use email to sell
✔ How to turn your email list into a community-building tool
✔ Why generic newsletters are not enough to keep people engaged
✔ What kind of tips and content make people actually want to open your emails
✔ How behind-the-scenes storytelling can build trust and connection
✔ Why segmentation matters if you want better clicks, sales, and engagement
✔ How to use testimonials in a way that feels human, not lazy or generic
✔ Why AI-written emails can weaken your brand voice and connection
✔ Which automations and flows every business should have set up
✔ How welcome sequences, abandoned cart emails, post-purchase emails, nurture emails, and re-engagement emails can support sales
✔ Why consistency matters more than sending emails every single day
✔ How to audit your email strategy, flows, calendar, and content so your list actually starts working for you

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome back to Marketing Sucks. I'm your host, Amanda Casinha.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

I'm your co-host, Phil Ginther.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

And what sucks this week?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

What sucks is that people think that email is dead.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

No, that's not what we're talking about today. People know email is not dead. What people are doing is that they're using their email just as a sales tool and not as like a community-building tool. And so what's happening is that their email is crickets because they're just fucking selling 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

That's my inbox all day, every day.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, that's why I have like one email account that just goes for all promotional shit because it's like I only go in there when I actually need the damn code. Because there's no like the only brands that I have that are doing a really good job are in my main inbox.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Because I actually like reading their emails. Everybody else gets filtered. And that's how that works. Yeah, I'm I'm like, and I know I'm not the only person doing this. And I know this because I work with email, you know, projects where they have very little sales, and all they needed was just a new strategy in how to quote unquote sell without selling overtly. And then we like within like two days immediately see an uptick in sales, like just on a welcome sequence.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

And that to me is, you know, proof that we're doing really good storytelling there and connecting on a different level and building more of a like a give and take relationship versus just a take. Take, yeah. Yeah. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna literally talk today about how your email list can be built and used as a community versus as just like a lead gen sales thing, like engine, and what your biggest mistakes are and how to fix that. Because I, you know, I we I've done email marketing for fucking since I don't know, 20 years. I've been like fucking doing email marketing. So that's true. I've seen it all. I've seen really great campaigns do really well, and I've seen campaigns just fucking like bomb. And it's really about how that company has treated their inbox, and it can take up to six months to earn the trust back in an email inbox. Like you have to be really fucking creative to like not lose somebody permanently.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Well, it's it's weird, right? Because email, in a sense, is like antiquated, right? We've everyone has had it for so long that especially for marketing, it becomes almost like a disposable tool a lot of the time. They don't think about it. And so when you said like, you know, email is a form of like creating community versus just like selling, I don't think people think about it that way at all. It's just kind of like, no, this is how I I get the clicks and the conversions.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah. So the way we do this is also looking at your demographic. Like if we if you do have an older demographic, you're like you're missing out on a lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

They love a good email.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

They love a good email. It's like like a true like Facebook user, right? Like that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Like they're there to consume someone who had a physical newspaper subscription.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah, they they're there to like those are the people that see the word newsletter and are like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I'm gonna make a T.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Right. But then you also have people, if that's not your demographic, then it's like, okay, how do I make this interesting enough that they they look forward to my emails, they want to open them and like what's the value there for them? Yep. And newsletter is not the way. Like, newsletter is we'll go over that in a bit, but like it's you know, there's there's two different ways people use their emails. So you have to meet them where they're at and make sure that you're doing it in an interesting way because you can see a lot of success from that. And I know that all of y'all are interested more in email marketing because anytime I do an episode on email marketing, that's the one that has the highest downloads. And I think it's because people haven't figured out how to master it yet. And I bet you any money, it's because you're using it as a sales engine and not as a community-building tool. So our biggest mistake is that we use it for sales only. And what we want to send instead are I'll give you a list because I'm gonna be nice today. Tips, but real tips. Something that somebody can do right now and see a result instantly. Okay?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

No blanket statement, no fucking thing that I can Google. What is the thing that I can like I'm telling you right now exactly what to do? And if you do what I tell you to do, you should see some kind of fucking result. And if you didn't, then you you didn't do what I told you to do. So I want a tip in there that's so juicy that you haven't put on social, that on social media you tell people, I'm gonna send an email today at 8 p.m. that is going to tell you how to do X, Y, and Z in five minutes to get you X result. You're not gonna say it like that because that's boring, but that's the gist of it. And then you're gonna collect all those emails and you're gonna send that tip, and then you're gonna get some kind of feedback or some kind of return on it. That's what I need you to do. I need you to actually give tips that are not Googleable. Let's say you're a, I don't know, like let me give like I need an example now.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Choose an industry.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Choose an industry. Give me an industry.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I don't know why. I was about to say yarn. I have no idea why. Yarn.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Okay, great. You know what? Because our daughter's super into crocheting. There you go. You're selling crochet classes. What? I can I can sell fucking anything. I love that you're going with this. So let's say you're gonna sell crochet classes, right? And I am like, sign up for my email, we're gonna give you tips and whatever. And let's say the tip is like where to buy the best yarn. I can fucking Google that. I don't need that. I don't need to subscribe to an email for that. I probably already know where to buy my yarn. These are the best types of crochet needles. I don't care about that. But if you were like, here is an email with a clickable link to my YouTube channel where I'm gonna show you how to do the most complicated loop-de-loop, right? In one to two easy steps, and you'll never look back again. I will click and I will go watch your YouTube channel. That's a tip. That's a tip with a piece of content that is consumable, and it's something that you're teaching me that I can actually do and take away within a couple of minutes. I will now look out for your emails. I will look for those valuable tips.

unknown 6:31

What?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Can can I just acknowledge you for rolling with this whole crochet thing and making a valid point?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

I can make anything interesting. That is my superpower and give me an industry. That's actually what we should do. I should just do a reel where everybody just gives me your industry and I'll give you a fucking idea. But so that's like what I mean by a tip. Okay. So that's what you're sending instead of a sales email. Now, from that, you look at how many people have clicked. You go now from there, you can literally segment those people, and then you can actually start maybe selling them a behind-the-scenes course on actually how to create a blanket or a pillow or whatever the hell it is that you're that you're looking to make money from. But now we actually have people that are we know that they're in the process of learning how to crochet and that they need specialized help. So now we can take that email list and we can say segment anybody that clicked on that and actually watched it for more than three seconds. I put them in a special category. And guess what? They're my target for when I actually sell something. So a lot of you are not using your email properly. So what we're doing is we're just sending mass emails to the entire list and seeing who's gonna bite instead of doing specialized segmented things. And how do we segment? Well, we need behaviors. We need learned behaviors from what they're doing with that email. And what ends up happening is you're not spending enough time in there. Instead, you're trying to figure out from like Joe Schmo online how to fucking dance in a in a TikTok because you think that's gonna make you a million dollars when you're actually just sitting on a bunch of data points that can make you money way faster if you just learned how to use the tools in your email management.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

No arguments here. I think that's no points. No, because no, because I think of it, I think about like I don't want to get into newsletters yet, because I have a big problem with newsletters. But a lot of the like I sign up with I used to sign up with for them with high hopes. Like I'm gonna get value out of this. Yeah. And and like first one comes in, nope, unsubscribe. You're just because they're not putting into action exactly what they're saying. But it's like if I signed up, I've taken the time to give you a piece, you know, of my my digital identity, and and then then it's just never returned with anything worthwhile.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah. So some other things that we can do so that Phil doesn't unsubscribe from your list is behind the scenes stuff, but not behind the scenes in the stereotypical way. Like take them behind the scenes of your last launch. This is how we actually created this product. Take them to the lab if it's an actual product, take them through the science behind it. Get get real fucking nerdy about it. People love that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Oh, yeah, yeah. What's behind the curtain, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

There's not enough like behind the scenes done well. The behind the scenes I see is very lazy. It's just small clips. Like, give me the story behind it. I'll probably read that over reading like generic, like, I don't know, just subpar writing that ChatGPT did or Clawed. So I like I really want to understand like the why behind something. That's what I mean by behind the scenes. Not like some like fake little, like, meh, everything was so great. Like, tell me what went wrong. That's what I want to know. I want to know what's behind the curtain, like the real curtain. Like, show me the wizard, you know? Like, I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

I was literally gonna say that's the entire plot of the Wizard of Oz is like, show me the behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Like, go with the behind the scenes. Lessons learned, like from that behind the scenes follow-up email could just be like what we learned from this, why we'll never launch that way again. Why I'll never make this product ever again. And like it could really just be like that. And it's not from a place like we failed. It's really just like a, hey, you guys are part of my community. You're one of my girlfriends. You're like, you want the tea? I'm gonna spill the tea for you. Mistakes to avoid is good content, right? Client testimonials, but not the stereotypical, like you put a fucking testimonial on a Canva like graphic and find it out. Like, write the story, tell the story about why this meant so much. If you don't know what that story is, then you don't know your customers, you're never gonna sell properly. Get to know your customers. I had a client, we used to actually do the we used to do Zoom videos. And we still have a couple clients that we do this. We do Zoom, like we interview them and they they want to do their testimonial on video. And then, you know, sometimes we use the actual video footage, sometimes we just use the audio. But more times than not, we're just we're taking the transcript so we can write the actual story out. And it's a really beautiful way to do it. And those testimonials take no time. It's literally like five minutes, like they're five-minute videos. There's a lot you can say in five minutes, especially if you don't have a podcast or you don't have somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

That's what I mean. Like that's so easy.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

You have to make the time though.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

So now we're gonna get into the newsletter. Stop calling it a newsletter. So if you're gonna send a newsletter, then it should be a newsletter. So, what actually is it that you're sending? Call it that. What's the goal of it? Use that to help name it. Every email needs a goal or a job. The goal doesn't have to be monetary every single time. Correct. And it shouldn't be monetary every time. But what's the goal of sending this? And if you don't have that laid out and you can't answer that, don't send it. Like sit back and work on it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I always love the the shotgun, like, we need to send a newsletter. And it's like, and why? About what? And also, like, what do you want people to do with that? Because I feel like it's almost like this this need to show up and just consistently be pushing out information. But if it's like low effort, low value information, you're gonna get on my unsubscribe list. Yeah. So like when when like the AI the AI boom started to uptick, I signed up for about half a dozen newsletters just because there were like there were no centralized sources. I'm only subscribed to one now. Yeah. Because everything else was was just trash and like sales, sales, sales. And what this company does very well, it's actually just a guy out of New York. He kind of just amalgamates all the industry news and then he pulls from social as well. They include like tutorials and different things happening, and so it's like you get the headlines, you get some practical information, and I haven't been sold to once within this newsletter. Mind you, it's only existed for eight months, maybe, but that is the only one I still read.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, they're building trust.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, so I'm just waiting for the You're waiting, and you're like, I'm skeptical, I'm skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

So, with that being said, you need to also, if unless it's a technical email, like what Phil's describing, where it's like giving you sources, so it's like your general like one-stop shop for like every piece of media or news you need in that industry, which is a great plan. Like, especially if you're in a service-based industry or product-based where you're just like, I'm gonna just give it to you all weekly, and like here's what you're digesting every week. That's fantastic. But if you're not that and you're like service-based or product-based where you're doing a lot of writing and it's not like a technical email, please stop using AI to write your emails. Please stop using quad, stop using ChatGPT. You're a human. The person on the other end is also a human. Just keep it simple. If you can't write your own story, then like there's a larger problem. There's a big problem there, you know. I think that there's a lot of laziness and it shows. And I you could tell, you could you just you can tell. You can tell when it's AI. So I think that you know your brand, your personality, like your point of view or the company's point of view matters. So just just do that. Just make sure it shows up. Act act like you matter. Like, act like your point of view matters. Act like your brand voice is the one that you want everybody to know. Because right now, most of you, everybody knows the chat GPT version of your brand because it's easy. Yeah. And they don't know the actual story, right? Like, if I put my story into Chat GPT and asked it to like bring it, give it back to me, sure, it's probably gonna give like a nice little, you know, cushy, like paraphrased version of what I have done in 20 years. If I sat down and actually like write it and I were to send both out, I guarantee you that the one I write will have way more impact and more response to it than the one that's paraphrased by a uh a computer and a robot.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah, it's like getting uh getting an email from a bank. That's never gonna be the email that you you don't you don't even open them unless it's like a statement or something direct. You just it's gone.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

So keep a simple structure when you're writing as well, and especially when it's like the sales emails. Like, again, I think people overcomplicate a lot. So, like, name your problem. Why can I solve your problem? Like, connect it to the offer, share proof, like have a call to action. Like, it's very simple, but when we have computers generating things for us every single day, it makes us stop using our brain. I think my favorite like thing is I'm like, yeah, I like like I got my degree without like using like any sort of AI, any well, any AI or like Google, like the research papers I had to write.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh, they were all yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I had to go to the library, like I had to go to the index cards, like I was like, this is like it's crazy to me, right? And hours invested just hours and hours, and I was doing like two at the same time, like there was a lot of work involved there, and it was just like books on books on books and reading and and putting together, you know, the thoughts. And like, like it's what like just like connecting ideas and making like your own like points come across with just like valid resources, and now that's just not a thing, right? I can chat GPT anything, I can quickly like reference something without having to ever step foot in a library or opening a book, but it feels that way, it creates atrophy, right? So it's lazy, it is so please, please, please, like community-building emails will make your sales easier over time, but community-building emails written by ChatGPT will not make your sales easier, it's actually gonna do the opposite, there's no real life connection there. So, a lot of times I like emails where we are like reply, like reply and tell me what you thought. Reply and let me know what's a problem you're dealing with right now. You know, ChatGPT can't answer that. You're gonna have to go in and answer the problem. Like, they're gonna work with you, they're not working with AI. You could do, like, you know, if you reply to this, like I'll send you a behind-the-scenes video, like a private YouTube link or whatever. Like, you can do some fun things to get like response back and participation that also will help your open rates in the future, because then it's a recognizable email. So when you do send sales emails, you're not landing in the promotion box, you landing in the inbox. So we need to create the back and forth in email, like sending letters in the past, you know, like when you stuff pen pals. This is just your version of a pen pal. Like, take it real back, real so.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Like if you would write a letter, you'd write it with great intention and personalization and yeah, but you have to like entice people to do so.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Like, and and that only comes with like real human connection, right? Like, I'm never gonna respond to something that I think is written by AI, but I will respond if I think a real person just wrote me an email. So invite the replies, ask questions, start conversations, and then the only other thing is consistency over everything. I've just seen too many people that only email when they have something to sell, they decide to pick up one day and like, oh yeah, okay, I guess I'll just sell this thing because I have a list. That's not always the best scenario. So be consistent. Consistency doesn't mean every day. Consistency just means something that you can do over time, reliably, reliably, that people are gonna be expecting from you. And that's how you'll then actually create really good traction in your emails, in your open rates, and your click-through rates, but also in your sales. The other thing to do with consistency that people overlook is their automations and your flows. So I'm gonna just give you a couple that you should be implementing, and these are easy and it helps keep the conversation going when you're not actually actively writing emails yourself. Now, these you have to write. Do not use the welcome sequences that are set up. Like it's we just did this for somebody too, where we like redid, we audited and then redid all of their flows and whatnot. And we saw an immediate, immediate sales. Like, I think I made it live like on a Thursday, and by the end of the weekend, there was a good, I think, thousand, two thousand dollars in sales just from the welcome sequence and I think a post-purchase or an abandoned, no, it was an abandoned cart sequence. So, you know, those are really important. If you do not have these set up, if they are not actually like telling your story, truly welcoming people into your email, giving them the expectation of what it is that they're gonna receive from you, like all of that, like you are leaving mad money on the table. Like, and I mean like serious, like serious money on the table. So some automations or flows that you should have set up are like a hundred percent a welcome sequence. And the welcome sequence needs to be set up based on the behaviors of your audience. So you need to understand what that means. So, like, you don't need to send like seven emails in seven days as a welcome sequence. Actually, the person that we worked with, we ended up taking their sequence, I think, from like seven emails down to five. And instead of it being over a two-week period, we actually did it over a 30-day period. It just stretched it out nice enough. The emails were long, so they were just like they were good. Plus, that person was also sending two emails a week or three emails a week on top of it. So I'm like, if we look again, this is like mapping it out. You hear me talk about this all the time on a calendar, looking at like what this looks like in the grand scheme. Is if I have a welcome sequence, think about this, that has let's say five emails or seven emails in two weeks. So that's 14 days. Yep. My math is mapping. I like it. That's an email every two days, just from a welcome sequence. And then you're also sending three emails a week that you haven't segmented, so it's just going to everybody. So now that person has received how many emails?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Too many is the answer.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Unless you're a fucking gap, like you are not sending that many emails to somebody brand new in your list. Like that's crazy. So it is also having that understanding of what's already scheduled, what is scheduled. Also, are people entering a sequence like during a massive sale? So now they're getting emails once a day, twice a day, three times a day for some people. So, like, we have to really think about that. So, all things to consider when you're doing your automations and flows and how like how they go out, your abandoned cart you need, a post-purchase sequence. So, after they purchase, they should be receiving at least three to four emails. So, like thanking them, orders on your way, here's how to use it, how was it? How was it, like a review, all that stuff, and then a nurture sequence as well, and then a re-engagement sequence. So these are obviously all segmented out to different types of groups, but you really, really, really, really, really need to have some flows in place. It will help when you are a little bit lack on time and maybe the consistency in your like regular emails aren't going out. At least they're being kept in contact with this like nurturing type of content. But yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say about email today. I think I'm done. I don't think I have anything else. I think just like the action items are audit your shed. As always, audit your flows, audit your calendars, and audit your content. Truly. Like and it an audit on this level will not be like five minutes. It's not gonna be an hour. Like, I would set aside one to two days, truly, or a couple of hours every day for like a week and really dive into it. Dive into how your flows are set up, who's getting them, when they're getting them, what's in each of them, what are your open rates on there? Have you made any money off of those flows? If the answer is no, then we really need to look at why. And then also looking at your actual sales emails that are going out individually, or your nurture emails that are going out individually, your newsletter, if that's what you're calling it. So there's a lot to do. Email marketing can be very overwhelming, but once you get it down pack and you understand it and you start to see the results from it, it's very fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

It can transform your business.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

It really can transform the business. I feel like it's just it's the one thing I always talk about that I'm just like, guys, do some do better in your emails, please. Like there's so much potential. I know.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

That's why I said everyone thinks it's dead, but it's like it's the one thing you truly own, right? That list is your list. Everything else is borrowed, it's on another platform. Anyway, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in. Whether you're watching or listening, always appreciate you, and we'll talk to you next week.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Bye.